This might be a explosive comment to make, but sometimes attacking munchkinism, as defined by min-maxing of stats, can destroy the role playing aspect of a game.
Here's a concern about the 3rd edition D&D rules. Lets say you've got in your group a barbarian half orc with an intelligence of 6, a charisma of 8, and a wisdom of 9. The party runs into an encounter which is best solved by some quick thinking and smooth talking, and the half orc steps forwards. His player gives a brilliant oratory, satisfying everyone involved, and moving the other players to tears with his eloquence. Now, as a DM, do you let this work, or do you tell his player that with the stats his character possesses, he isn't actually capable of this? Do you make him make a diplomacy check?
If you tell him to make a diplomacy check, which he will probably fail with his stats, you've just negated the fact that he used his mind and avoided munchkinism. In fact, you've encouraged him to play his character as a complete munchkin. Lets say, though, that another player sees this encounter, and starts investing points in diplomacy, eventually getting his modifier up to a +16. The next time you come to an encounter like this one, he moves to the front and starts talking... and absolutely, horribly sucks at it. He speech making skills couldn't convince his own mother to not attack him, much less the angry knights facing the party. BUT! He has a good diplomacy skill modifier! After his miserable speech that never could have convinced anyone of anything, he insists on using his diplomacy check, and rolls a result which would pass any reasonable DC. Do you let HIM have it?
If you make the roleplaying count, but not the skill check, you've encouraged min maxing for combat, since that's where the numbers on the page actually count, and in social situations the players brain matters more than the characters stats. If you make the skill check count instead of the roleplaying, you've just let players start munchkinning interpersonal relationships. Don't be surprised if players start wanting to skip the conversation all together, and move straight to the skill check. You can't combine the solutions well, because its so easy to slide from "I'm adjusting the DC of the check based on your speech" to "Really, I'm deciding whether or not you've got a chance in hell of making this check."
That's why the only real solution to munchkinning, as I'm starting to believe, may lie in players who genuinely do not want to be munchkins. A player who intends to roleplay will not be a munchkin, no matter how you run the game, and a player who wants to be a munchkin will be one, no matter what you do.
Play with good people, or accept that minmaxed characters are just the way things go, and try to adjust challenges to match them. And remember that a cerebral puzzle is going to challenge the mind of the player, not of the character, so it won't neccessarily change the players means of character creation.
This might be a explosive comment to make, but sometimes attacking munchkinism, as defined by min-maxing of stats, can destroy the role playing aspect of a game.
Here's a concern about the 3rd edition D&D rules. Lets say you've got in your group a barbarian half orc with an intelligence of 6, a charisma of 8, and a wisdom of 9. The party runs into an encounter which is best solved by some quick thinking and smooth talking, and the half orc steps forwards. His player gives a brilliant oratory, satisfying everyone involved, and moving the other players to tears with his eloquence. Now, as a DM, do you let this work, or do you tell his player that with the stats his character possesses, he isn't actually capable of this? Do you make him make a diplomacy check?
If you tell him to make a diplomacy check, which he will probably fail with his stats, you've just negated the fact that he used his mind and avoided munchkinism. In fact, you've encouraged him to play his character as a complete munchkin. Lets say, though, that another player sees this encounter, and starts investing points in diplomacy, eventually getting his modifier up to a +16. The next time you come to an encounter like this one, he moves to the front and starts talking... and absolutely, horribly sucks at it. He speech making skills couldn't convince his own mother to not attack him, much less the angry knights facing the party. BUT! He has a good diplomacy skill modifier! After his miserable speech that never could have convinced anyone of anything, he insists on using his diplomacy check, and rolls a result which would pass any reasonable DC. Do you let HIM have it?
If you make the roleplaying count, but not the skill check, you've encouraged min maxing for combat, since that's where the numbers on the page actually count, and in social situations the players brain matters more than the characters stats. If you make the skill check count instead of the roleplaying, you've just let players start munchkinning interpersonal relationships. Don't be surprised if players start wanting to skip the conversation all together, and move straight to the skill check. You can't combine the solutions well, because its so easy to slide from "I'm adjusting the DC of the check based on your speech" to "Really, I'm deciding whether or not you've got a chance in hell of making this check."
That's why the only real solution to munchkinning, as I'm starting to believe, may lie in players who genuinely do not want to be munchkins. A player who intends to roleplay will not be a munchkin, no matter how you run the game, and a player who wants to be a munchkin will be one, no matter what you do.
Play with good people, or accept that minmaxed characters are just the way things go, and try to adjust challenges to match them. And remember that a cerebral puzzle is going to challenge the mind of the player, not of the character, so it won't neccessarily change the players means of character creation.