D&D4e: 3 [campaign settings] books and out

If Dragon and Dungeon are going to be the source for new material, it moves the publishing model away from "paper-backed books that cost $30 each and may suck" to "a monthly subscription that costs as much as $14.95 or as low as $9.95 and may suck too", with no paper-equivalent.

I'm conflicted about it too, really. I had stopped picking up FR/Eberron books recently due to the 4E announcement. But, with the lack of sourcebooks (which I read as enjoyably as a I read any novel), it'll make me want to scour around to complete my 3E sets. But, if new material does appear in DDI/Dungeon/Dragon (electronic only), I'm not sure I'll actually get time to /read/ it - nowadays, when I'm at the computer, I'm usually doing something besides just reading passively.

Well, I'm not a big fan of anthropomorphic animal alien species in sci-fi, and, assuming I remember it correctly, Spelljammer had everything from spaceships powered by giant hamsters running in wheels to talking hippos.

The whole thing just had a little too much of the whole "Star Trek with fantasy races and D&D rules," and not enough stuff to warrent its own setting. I dunno, I just don't like using the D&D system for anything other than heroic fantasy.

http://www.geneticanomaly.com/RPG-Motivational/slides/spelljammer.html

"So, why does being a fighter help you be a good party leader? Well, the main thing is: Who's gonna fight you for it? The elf?"
-Redgar, from the PHB PSAs

I do agree that SJ could use some more "unifying flavor" giving the setting a more coherent feel, but I think there are quite a few brilliant ideas in it - the tremendous power of the Royal Elven Fleet, the mysterious creators of the helms, the machinations of the Illithids and the Neogi slavers, coupled with derelict ships, turtle-mounted planets and volatile atmosphere (literally) have very appealing imagery for me.

What tossed 3rd ed stuff are you referring to?
Are you talking about that Dragon article called Pirate Moon or something like that?
In any case, I'm referring to the 2nd Ed. material.

I totally agree with the motivational poster Lorthyne linked up here. I'd say SJ is lacking some cohesive flavor similarly to Star Trek (and a bit like Forgotten Realms, come to think of it).

Rokugan (the world of Oriental Adventures) was from Legend of the Five Rings, which is still being published (not under d20). It has five or six books to it now. More at http://www.l5r.com/. I use it for source material, but don't much care for the rules.

Aye. being that the whole "power source" thing is apparently a big deal now, I wonder if they'll just translate the "arcane" source so that it reads "You defile the land with your magic, you jerk. You'd better hope the hippies (i.e., everybody except the sorcerer-kings) don't catch up with you."

:)

You know, Gamegrene opened up the same day as 3E. I wish I could get a software upgrade in time to do the same for 4E, but I just a new baby girl (my second), so that's keeping me pretty busy. The site's in dire need of fresh code and paint though. /me sighs.

I've actually always liked the elegant simplicity of the various shades of green, but maybe I'm just lacking in taste.

:D

Heh, heh. Well, the greens would be staying, but I'm thinking more of "make it look like disobey.com, only green and with different trimmings". Largely, the reason gamegrene.com has lagged so far behind my other sites (code/tech wise) is because it was so different than all the others. Lots of steps to get it there though. (But, yeah, moving to a disobey.com-like design would mean the end of banner ads, etc.).

Hardly. Imagination takes many different forms. Personally, I use settings (and even *gasp!* pre-made adventures) because I find that I am much better at taking someone else's idea and turning it into something amazing than making that amazing something myself. I think it's focus. Taking a pre-made anything focuses me on the basic themes of the work and allows me to develop them and interweave them with ideas and themes of my own. When I try to develop something entirely new of my own it goes crazy and gets way out of hand. Settings provide a ground to start at. I consider myself a very imaginative person, but I prefer to use pre-mades because it keeps my time productive. Don't get me wrong, the pre-mades never end up as they started (they're usually incredibly different), but I would never have had that cool idea if I hadn't started with the premades. I don't do well with blank slates - my best ideas and works come when I'm inspired by something I read, saw on television, etc.

So don't bash pre-mades; they're great tools when used correctly. And I never would've been able to creat a whole setting like Rokugan in OA; I just don't know enough about Asian culture.

Settings are basically huge pre-mades. They follow the same purpose - they get a lot of work done for you. Bashing settings as something for those with no imagination is the same as bashing premades like so. They kinda translate over.

I'm just really creative, I even feel guilty using the deities in the PHB.

That really has nothing to do with how creative you are. Some of the most creative people in the world decide to tell stories in the "pre-made setting" of this very world. Making worlds without end hardly makes you creative.

I think this comes down to a different sense of what creative means. To me, and I think most can agree with me, creativity doesn't mean coming up with something wholly new and creative. Creative means being able to look at things from a new perspective, shedding new light on an old subject. In this way, what's important is not the story or the setting it's placed in, but what the story is about, the themes it covers. That's why classics are always possible, because there's an infinite number of ways to look at something. That's why authors like J.R.R. Tolkein, whose only original creation (and that's even debatable) is the hobbit, are known for being incredibly creative because they looked at it in a new way. In this case, Tolkein looked at mythology and heroism in a new way, or at least a way that hadn't been thought of for a long time. Anybody can make a bunch of worlds (think Star Wars, with a desert planet, a jungle planet, etc.) but that hardly proves creativity. In fact, it really does the opposite. I can take a setting and still be very creative with it, because I use that setting to tell what is my own, that being my story. I created that story. There's plenty of creativity there. Ultimately, a setting is only a backdrop, a way of translating and making possible the events in your story, so you can say something, even something like, "Beating dragons is fun!" It has little other purpose, except when it serves as a character itself (like Sigil in Planescape). Even then, though, it's purpose is to facilitate your story. That's what important. I don't care how many neat worlds you can make, if you can't make a good story, it doesn't matter. You're missing the point.

As for the D&D gods, they are ridiculous, but they really aren't designed to be used; they're there to be examples of what you could do. The creative thing to do here would be to make up reasons why one god has a name like St. Cuthbert, and another like Wee Jas, and then tie it into your story.

I'm the same way, Scott. I'll just pick bits and pieces out of tons of source books and television shows and novels and movies until I have what I want. Ultimately, it ends up as something new, but at its fundamentals its just an amalgam of all this other stuff. I've thrown things at my players that have had their mouths open, but I can claim almost nothing as original - just elements smashed into what I like to consider my creation.

I think the way they're designing it is so it can be run with just one book - the core book. But then they have the DM and player's guides to buff it up and provide additional material. Personally, I think this is the best way to market campaign settings. It allows some depth and development (without making the core book 1000+ pages), makes sure what you're buying is worth what you're paying for, but keeps its focus and doesn't wander all over the place.